Discussion:
Save the Allegory!
(too old to reply)
Steve Hayes
2016-05-17 08:35:37 UTC
Permalink
Save the Allegory!

An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.

By Laura Miller

I’m not much of a language stickler. I roll my eyes when people argue
over the Oxford comma, and I couldn’t care less when someone says they
“could care less.” As a descriptivist (rather than a prescriptivist),
I’m mostly OK with seeing the meaning of words evolve and transform
over time, because that’s what a living language does.

Laura Miller is a books and culture columnist for Slate and the author
of The Magician’s Book: A Skeptic’s Adventures in Narnia.

But we all have our weaknesses. There’s one particular error I see
over and over, often in criticism, that sets my teeth on edge. That’s
because it flies beyond being a simple misnomer and instead
misunderstands and erases an entire literary tradition, a rich and
wonderful one that flowered most gloriously in the 13th century. My
gripe isn’t totally arcane, I promise! Just bear with me for a moment
while I get medieval on those who abuse the word allegory.

What people usually mean when they call something an allegory today is
that the fictional work in question can function as a metaphor for
some real-world situation or event. This is a common arts journalist’s
device: finding a political parallel to whatever you happen to be
reviewing is a handy way to make it appear worth writing about in the
first place. Calling that parallel an allegory serves to make the
comparison more forceful. Fusion says that Batman v Superman is a
“none-too-subtle allegory for the fight between Republican
presidential hopefuls Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.” (It is not.) The
Hollywood Reporter calls Zootopia an “accidental anti-Trump
allegory”—this despite the fact that there is no literary form less
accidental than allegory. The meaning of the word has drifted so far
that even works that aren’t especially metaphorical get labeled as
allegory: A film about artistic repression in Iran is a “clunky
allegory” for ... artistic repression in Iran.

Allegory or metaphor: The distinction might seem obscure and academic
to many readers. Shouldn’t allegory be grateful to get any attention
at all? Isn’t it just an archaic literary mode that nobody uses
anymore? Yes and no. About the only people creating true allegories
today are political cartoonists. But a culture never entirely discards
its roots, and allegory, which first appeared in the waning years of
the Roman Empire, is one of the foundations of Western literature.
Maybe if we understood it better, we’d realize how much we owe to it.
Besides, the allegorical imagination lives on, just not in the places
where critics think they see it.

An allegory, in short, is not just another word for a metaphor. In
essence, it’s a form of fiction that represents immaterial things as
images. It calls attention to what it’s doing, typically by giving
those images overtly thematic labels, like presenting the Seven Deadly
Sins as a procession of people named Lust, Sloth, Pride, and the rest.
The most famous allegory ever written, John Bunyan’s The Pilgrim’s
Progress, was published in 1678, making it a holdover; allegory saw
its artistic heyday in the Middle Ages. Yet The Pilgrim’s Progress was
a colossal hit; for two centuries, it was the second book purchased by
any Protestant household affluent and literate enough to own its own
Bible. Everyone read about the narrator who falls asleep and dreams of
a man named Christian fleeing the City of Destruction while bearing a
heavy burden (representing the knowledge of his own sins) on his back.
A figure named Evangelist instructs Christian on how to reach the
Celestial City, a long journey past such perils as the Slough (swamp)
of Despond and the Hill of Difficulty, where people with names like
Mr. Worldly Wiseman and Hypocrisy attempt to lead him astray.

The low opinion in which allegory is now widely held can be blamed on
The Pilgrim’s Progress. The book is pious and manifestly didactic,
although I can testify from experience that a young-enough reader can
still find it an entertaining adventure yarn. Adults, apart from some
very devout Protestants, tend to experience its sermonizing as
oppressive. When critics call a work of art an allegory today, and
especially when they use adjectives like clunky and none-too-subtle,
they invoke this aspect of The Pilgrim’s Progress; they mean a story
that imposes a single, conspicuous interpretation on a reader or
viewer. Allegory lectures. As the critic Northrop Frye wrote, “The
commenting critic is often prejudiced against allegory without knowing
the real reason, which is that continuous allegory prescribes the
direction of his commentary, and so restricts its freedom.”

Perhaps Frye was right, and what we resent about allegory is the way
it makes thematic analysis superfluous. You can’t really congratulate
yourself for ferreting out the moral of Christian fighting his way
through the fancy city of Vanity Fair or the mining town named Lucre.
Should a book or a film present its argument so simply that even a
child can discern it, what’s left to talk about? Merely language,
story, and imagery—all the pleasures that art is made of.

Do we even know how to read such a book anymore? C.S. Lewis thought
not. He wrote the definitive treatise on the form in 1936: The
Allegory of Love: A Study in Medieval Tradition. We know Lewis today
as the author of The Chronicles of Narnia and as a writer of Christian
apologetics, but before all that he was a sensational literary
critic—and I mean sensational literally. Perceptive, erudite, and
witty, he also wrote with an infectious vividness about the experience
of reading, of mingling with an author’s mind and imagination. Here’s
how he described the allegories of Martianus Capella, an influential
writer of the early fifth century:

The philosophies of others, the religions of others—back even to
the twilight of pre-Republican Rome—have all gone into the curiosity
shop of his mind. It is not his business to believe or disbelieve
them; the wicked old pedant knows a trick worth two of that. He piles
them up all around him until there is hardly room for him to sit among
them in the middle darkness of the shop; and there he gloats and
catalogues, but never dusts them, for even their dust is precious in
his eyes.

Lewis’ apologetics can be parochial, but his criticism flings open its
doors and windows to welcome in any writer with even a wisp of
distinction. Most remarkable of all, his scholarly works are never,
ever incomprehensible or boring, even when they concern the most
tedious literature. (Lewis’ biographer, A.N. Wilson, wrote that his
one great fault as a critic was his “enthusiastic generosity” toward
authors “who are not really as interesting as he makes them sound.”)

A medievalist, Lewis was forever defending the Middle Ages from the
glib notion that they constituted an intellectual and artistic fallow
period between the classical world and the Renaissance. (He is
completely convincing on this point.) We often fail to understand the
beauty of medieval art, he argued, because we experience the world and
our place in it so differently from the people of that time. We can’t
appreciate medieval allegory until we make a concerted effort to
imagine what it was like to inhabit the world as they saw it, as a
divinely ordered universe in which “certain sympathies, antipathies,
and strivings [are] inherent in matter itself. Everything has its
right place, its home, the region that suits it.”

Lewis traces the origins of allegory to a period in late antiquity
when, for undetermined reasons, the Western concept of a virtuous life
changed profoundly. In the Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle described
virtue as a skill to be learned by practice, until it becomes not just
second nature, but an end in itself. “The man who does not enjoy doing
noble actions is not a good man at all,” he wrote. You don’t become a
good cook by conquering your desire to cook badly; similarly, you
become a good man by simultaneously acquiring the expertise and
reaping its rewards.

The emerging idea that virtue instead results from an ongoing inner
battle against our own worst impulses was not exclusively Christian,
but it fit perfectly with the Christian belief in humanity’s fallen
nature. We’re so familiar with this concept of the psyche as a theater
of struggle between opposing forces that it’s difficult to conceive of
a time when it was relatively new, the time when allegory was born.
“To fight against ‘temptation,’ ” Lewis writes, “is also to explore
the inner world; and it is scarcely less plain that to do so is to be
already on the verge of allegory.”

Yet today we associate allegory with a lack of the “round” fictional
characters we value most, characters whose believability resides at
least partly in their internal conflicts. This is a standard set by
the novel, a relatively recent literary form that (for the most part)
aims to produce a naturalistic depiction of the world. Allegory
doesn’t work that way. The characters in allegories like the
13th-century poem Roman de la Rose, or Edmund Spenser’s 16th-century
masterpiece, The Faerie Queene, are “flat” by contemporary standards,
possessed of only a few traits and behaving with inhuman consistency.

But, as Lewis demonstrates in a long, virtuosic reading of Roman de la
Rose, this is because they aren’t actually meant to be characters.
Instead these people, the objects they handle, and the spaces they
occupy all represent aspects of the self. Roman de la Rose describes
the courtship of a noble maiden by a courtier. Like many allegories it
is framed as a dream, a sign that we’ve entered into a psychological
interior. The lover seeks the Garden of Love, where he meets such
clashing figures as Mirth, Companionship, Pride, and Shame. The lady
herself seems strangely dematerialized because, as Lewis observes,
“her character is distributed among personifications.”

But, Lewis hastens to add, an allegory is not merely an equation to be
solved, leaving you free to “throw aside the allegorical imagery as
something which has now done its work.” Allegorical reading requires
sustaining both image and meaning in the reader’s mind, as equally
valued components of the work. “It is not enough,” Lewis writes, “to
see that the dreamer gazing into the fountain signifies the lover
first looking into the lady’s eyes. We must feel that the scene by the
fountain is an imaginative likeness of the lover’s experience.” We
must be able to see the sparkling water and the shining eyes at the
same time and recognize them to be facets of a singular, layered
understanding that includes the recognition of other, abstract
qualities as well, such as the purity of her spirit.

The literate people of the Middle Ages were experts at comprehending
art in this way. They routinely compounded vast amounts of meaning
into certain ideas or motifs, partly because they were always
attempting to integrate the cultural legacy of classical paganism into
Christian theology. For them, “Venus” signified multiple things
simultaneously: a planet, a Roman goddess with a set of stories
attached to her, a literary figure, the image of feminine beauty, the
force of erotic love, God’s will manifested in the fruitful union of a
man and a woman, and so on. Christianity formed a bedrock for this way
of thinking, but no one of these is the “true” meaning of Venus to
which all others can be reduced. Their characters may seem “thin” when
compared with those in a great novel, but their images are much fuller
and richer.
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Lewis would surely argue that it is the modern reader who, viewing
allegory as reductive, shows a lack of subtlety. In a great allegory,
the imagery is not a code for the underlying theme; it is every bit as
important as theme. Perhaps the greatest allegory, Edmund Spenser’s
The Faerie Queene, offers a case in point. Lewis was Spenser’s
foremost champion, rescuing the Elizabethan poet from near-obscurity
and restoring The Faerie Queene to the canon—to the dismay of many
undergraduates but to the delight of others. Lewis first read the epic
poem as a boy, devouring it as a tale of brave knights battling
dragons, giants, and wicked enchanters against a sylvan landscape
splashed with gore. A grasp of the religious and political
implications of such figures as the beautiful but nefarious lady
Duessa (an allegory for the Catholic Church) or the Redcross Knight
(who embodies the spirit of England) would come later, but many
generations of readers have been well-satisfied with the surface
alone.

The Faerie Queene is a vast, ravishing spectacle—one that contemporary
readers can find pretty inaccessible due to Spenser’s use of language
and diction that is deliberately archaic, even for his own time. (Ben
Jonson, a near contemporary, complained that “in affecting the
ancients Spenser writ no language.”) Fortunately, an unabridged
audiobook, masterfully narrated by David Timson, released late last
year makes the poem much more readily intelligible for a new or
returning reader. The Faerie Queene is a pageant of one gorgeous,
trippy vision after another, from the Garden of Proserpina, the queen
of the underworld, (every blossom, leaf, and fruit in it is coal
black) to the adventures of “the famous Britomart,” a female knight
every bit as valiant as our beloved Brienne of Tarth. And while many
of Spenser’s allegorical concerns have become obsolete, it only takes
a scene like the Redcross Knight’s encounter with shaggy, gaunt
Despair as he crouches in his cave, surrounded by the knights he has
persuaded to kill themselves, to remind a reader of the form’s
potency.

Spenser’s Despair calls to mind the dementors, the most terrifying
monsters in the Harry Potter series, although J.K. Rowling’s specters
are not so much personifications of depression as allegorical
deployments of it. This is where the spirit of allegory lives on, in
novels and films when the action feels as if it is taking place inside
one person’s head. Sometimes a superhero comic or film slips into an
allegorical mode, less by mimicking some timely political situation
than by creating an antagonist like the Penguin, who resembles an
updating of the medieval allegory for greed. The Hero’s Journey, a
staple of screenwriting courses and, alas, the model for so many
mediocre films, is really just an allegorical narrative slapped with
the more palatable label of “myth.” Yet the contemporary artworks most
redolent of allegory’s heady psychic atmosphere are both archetypal
and dreamlike: the novels of Haruki Murakami and the films of David
Lynch, to name two examples. These stories partake of what Lewis
describes as “the perennial strangeness, the adventurousness, and the
sinuous forward movement of the inner life.” They are more enigmatic
and chaotic than medieval allegory, but ours is a more confusing and
disordered world.

See it here:
https://t.co/kVOkvPEMhH
--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
Richard Heathfield
2016-05-17 09:09:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
<a thoroughly enjoyable article - thank you - BUT there is a tiny nit to
pick...>

Save the "use-mention" distinction!
Post by Steve Hayes
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
Writers do not use the term allegory, whatever a term allegory might be.
They do, however, sometimes use (and indeed abuse) the term 'allegory'.
The author of the article is /mentioning/ the word 'allegory', not using
it, and so it is necessary to use extra punctuation to mark off the
mentioned word.

<snip>
Post by Steve Hayes
Just bear with me for a moment
while I get medieval
The word is 'mediæval'. :-)
Post by Steve Hayes
on those who abuse the word allegory.
Those who abuse the word 'allegory' are as mustard seeds compared to the
mountains who confuse using words with mentioning them.

<snip>
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Jerry Friedman
2016-05-17 13:41:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
<a thoroughly enjoyable article - thank you - BUT there is a tiny nit to
pick...>
Save the "use-mention" distinction!
Post by Steve Hayes
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
Writers do not use the term allegory, whatever a term allegory might be.
They do, however, sometimes use (and indeed abuse) the term 'allegory'.
The author of the article is /mentioning/ the word 'allegory', not using
it, and so it is necessary to use extra punctuation to mark off the
mentioned word.
...

It's italicized in the original article.

<http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2016/05/an_allegory_is_not_the_same_as_a_metaphor_in_praise_of_the_medieval_literary.html>
--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers
Richard Heathfield
2016-05-17 13:58:53 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Jerry Friedman
[...] and so it is necessary to use extra punctuation to mark off the
mentioned word.
...
It's italicized in the original article.
Case dismissed. Mr Hayes may leave the court without a stain on his
character.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Jerry Friedman
2016-05-17 13:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
By Laura Miller
I’m not much of a language stickler. I roll my eyes when people argue
over the Oxford comma, and I couldn’t care less when someone says they
“could care less.” As a descriptivist (rather than a prescriptivist),
I’m mostly OK with seeing the meaning of words evolve and transform
over time, because that’s what a living language does.
...

Very daring to copy that into a.u.e.
Post by Steve Hayes
What people usually mean when they call something an allegory today is
that the fictional work in question can function as a metaphor for
some real-world situation or event. This is a common arts journalist’s
device: finding a political parallel to whatever you happen to be
reviewing is a handy way to make it appear worth writing about in the
first place. Calling that parallel an allegory serves to make the
comparison more forceful. Fusion says that Batman v Superman is a
“none-too-subtle allegory for the fight between Republican
presidential hopefuls Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.” (It is not.) The
Hollywood Reporter calls Zootopia an “accidental anti-Trump
allegory”—this despite the fact that there is no literary form less
accidental than allegory. The meaning of the word has drifted so far
that even works that aren’t especially metaphorical get labeled as
allegory: A film about artistic repression in Iran is a “clunky
allegory” for ... artistic repression in Iran.
She's got a point there. I also dislike the idea that calling a fantasy
or science fiction story an allegory makes it respectable somehow.
Post by Steve Hayes
Allegory or metaphor: The distinction might seem obscure and academic
to many readers. Shouldn’t allegory be grateful to get any attention
at all? Isn’t it just an archaic literary mode that nobody uses
anymore? Yes and no. About the only people creating true allegories
today are political cartoonists. But a culture never entirely discards
its roots, and allegory, which first appeared in the waning years of
the Roman Empire,
Ahem. See for example Plato's /Republic/, Psalm 80, and Ezekiel 16-17.
Post by Steve Hayes
is one of the foundations of Western literature.
...

See also /Encountering Sorrow/ (/Li Sao/, I'm told), a Chinese classic
of the third century B.C., I'm told.
Post by Steve Hayes
https://t.co/kVOkvPEMhH
--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers
Steve Hayes
2016-05-17 18:22:53 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 17 May 2016 07:53:01 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
By Laura Miller
I’m not much of a language stickler. I roll my eyes when people argue
over the Oxford comma, and I couldn’t care less when someone says they
“could care less.” As a descriptivist (rather than a prescriptivist),
I’m mostly OK with seeing the meaning of words evolve and transform
over time, because that’s what a living language does.
...
Very daring to copy that into a.u.e.
I think it's now several years since I saw discussions about that on
aue, but when I did, I think the descriptivists outnumbered the
prescriptivists.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
What people usually mean when they call something an allegory today is
that the fictional work in question can function as a metaphor for
some real-world situation or event. This is a common arts journalist’s
device: finding a political parallel to whatever you happen to be
reviewing is a handy way to make it appear worth writing about in the
first place. Calling that parallel an allegory serves to make the
comparison more forceful. Fusion says that Batman v Superman is a
“none-too-subtle allegory for the fight between Republican
presidential hopefuls Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.” (It is not.) The
Hollywood Reporter calls Zootopia an “accidental anti-Trump
allegory”—this despite the fact that there is no literary form less
accidental than allegory. The meaning of the word has drifted so far
that even works that aren’t especially metaphorical get labeled as
allegory: A film about artistic repression in Iran is a “clunky
allegory” for ... artistic repression in Iran.
She's got a point there. I also dislike the idea that calling a fantasy
or science fiction story an allegory makes it respectable somehow.
I think she goes too far, but agree with her point about many people
going too far the other way, and calling things allegories that are
not allegories at all.

I disagree with her when she says that allegories can only be about
abstract qualities that are personified. I think allegories can also
be about people and events in the world. I don't think it's wrong to
call "Animal Farm" an allegory, for instance.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Allegory or metaphor: The distinction might seem obscure and academic
to many readers. Shouldn’t allegory be grateful to get any attention
at all? Isn’t it just an archaic literary mode that nobody uses
anymore? Yes and no. About the only people creating true allegories
today are political cartoonists. But a culture never entirely discards
its roots, and allegory, which first appeared in the waning years of
the Roman Empire,
Ahem. See for example Plato's /Republic/, Psalm 80, and Ezekiel 16-17.
I think allegory was popular back then, though, and all sorts of
non-allegorical works were given allegorical interretations.
--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
Jerry Friedman
2016-05-18 04:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
On Tue, 17 May 2016 07:53:01 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
By Laura Miller
I’m not much of a language stickler. I roll my eyes when people argue
over the Oxford comma, and I couldn’t care less when someone says they
“could care less.” As a descriptivist (rather than a prescriptivist),
I’m mostly OK with seeing the meaning of words evolve and transform
over time, because that’s what a living language does.
...
Very daring to copy that into a.u.e.
I think it's now several years since I saw discussions about that on
aue, but when I did, I think the descriptivists outnumbered the
prescriptivists.
Still probably true. See the thread on "other than".
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
What people usually mean when they call something an allegory today is
that the fictional work in question can function as a metaphor for
some real-world situation or event. This is a common arts journalist’s
device: finding a political parallel to whatever you happen to be
reviewing is a handy way to make it appear worth writing about in the
first place. Calling that parallel an allegory serves to make the
comparison more forceful. Fusion says that Batman v Superman is a
“none-too-subtle allegory for the fight between Republican
presidential hopefuls Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.” (It is not.) The
Hollywood Reporter calls Zootopia an “accidental anti-Trump
allegory”—this despite the fact that there is no literary form less
accidental than allegory. The meaning of the word has drifted so far
that even works that aren’t especially metaphorical get labeled as
allegory: A film about artistic repression in Iran is a “clunky
allegory” for ... artistic repression in Iran.
She's got a point there. I also dislike the idea that calling a fantasy
or science fiction story an allegory makes it respectable somehow.
I think she goes too far, but agree with her point about many people
going too far the other way, and calling things allegories that are
not allegories at all.
I disagree with her when she says that allegories can only be about
abstract qualities that are personified. I think allegories can also
be about people and events in the world. I don't think it's wrong to
call "Animal Farm" an allegory, for instance.
I like Traddict's suggestion that it's a roman à clef. Do you consider
that a subcategory of allegory?
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Allegory or metaphor: The distinction might seem obscure and academic
to many readers. Shouldn’t allegory be grateful to get any attention
at all? Isn’t it just an archaic literary mode that nobody uses
anymore? Yes and no. About the only people creating true allegories
today are political cartoonists. But a culture never entirely discards
its roots, and allegory, which first appeared in the waning years of
the Roman Empire,
Ahem. See for example Plato's /Republic/, Psalm 80, and Ezekiel 16-17.
I think allegory was popular back then, though, and all sorts of
non-allegorical works were given allegorical interretations.
Such as the Song of Songs? That's still no reason to say that late
Roman times are when allegory first appeared, though. In my opinion.
--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers
Steve Hayes
2016-05-19 02:16:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 17 May 2016 22:41:16 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
On Tue, 17 May 2016 07:53:01 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
By Laura Miller
<snip>
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
What people usually mean when they call something an allegory today is
that the fictional work in question can function as a metaphor for
some real-world situation or event. This is a common arts journalist’s
device: finding a political parallel to whatever you happen to be
reviewing is a handy way to make it appear worth writing about in the
first place. Calling that parallel an allegory serves to make the
comparison more forceful. Fusion says that Batman v Superman is a
“none-too-subtle allegory for the fight between Republican
presidential hopefuls Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.” (It is not.) The
Hollywood Reporter calls Zootopia an “accidental anti-Trump
allegory”—this despite the fact that there is no literary form less
accidental than allegory. The meaning of the word has drifted so far
that even works that aren’t especially metaphorical get labeled as
allegory: A film about artistic repression in Iran is a “clunky
allegory” for ... artistic repression in Iran.
She's got a point there. I also dislike the idea that calling a fantasy
or science fiction story an allegory makes it respectable somehow.
I think she goes too far, but agree with her point about many people
going too far the other way, and calling things allegories that are
not allegories at all.
I disagree with her when she says that allegories can only be about
abstract qualities that are personified. I think allegories can also
be about people and events in the world. I don't think it's wrong to
call "Animal Farm" an allegory, for instance.
I like Traddict's suggestion that it's a roman à clef. Do you consider
that a subcategory of allegory?
I'm not sure. In some instances, yes, but not in others.

I would say "Animal Farm" is both, but a book like "The Dharma bums"
is a roman a clef, but not allegory.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Allegory or metaphor: The distinction might seem obscure and academic
to many readers. Shouldn’t allegory be grateful to get any attention
at all? Isn’t it just an archaic literary mode that nobody uses
anymore? Yes and no. About the only people creating true allegories
today are political cartoonists. But a culture never entirely discards
its roots, and allegory, which first appeared in the waning years of
the Roman Empire,
Ahem. See for example Plato's /Republic/, Psalm 80, and Ezekiel 16-17.
I think allegory was popular back then, though, and all sorts of
non-allegorical works were given allegorical interretations.
Such as the Song of Songs? That's still no reason to say that late
Roman times are when allegory first appeared, though. In my opinion.
--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
Tak To
2016-05-17 21:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
By Laura Miller
I’m not much of a language stickler. I roll my eyes when people argue
over the Oxford comma, and I couldn’t care less when someone says they
“could care less.” As a descriptivist (rather than a prescriptivist),
I’m mostly OK with seeing the meaning of words evolve and transform
over time, because that’s what a living language does.
....
Very daring to copy that into a.u.e.
Post by Steve Hayes
What people usually mean when they call something an allegory today is
that the fictional work in question can function as a metaphor for
some real-world situation or event. This is a common arts journalist’s
device: finding a political parallel to whatever you happen to be
reviewing is a handy way to make it appear worth writing about in the
first place. Calling that parallel an allegory serves to make the
comparison more forceful. Fusion says that Batman v Superman is a
“none-too-subtle allegory for the fight between Republican
presidential hopefuls Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.” (It is not.) The
Hollywood Reporter calls Zootopia an “accidental anti-Trump
allegory”—this despite the fact that there is no literary form less
accidental than allegory. The meaning of the word has drifted so far
that even works that aren’t especially metaphorical get labeled as
allegory: A film about artistic repression in Iran is a “clunky
allegory” for ... artistic repression in Iran.
She's got a point there. I also dislike the idea that calling a fantasy
or science fiction story an allegory makes it respectable somehow.
Post by Steve Hayes
Allegory or metaphor: The distinction might seem obscure and academic
to many readers. Shouldn’t allegory be grateful to get any attention
at all? Isn’t it just an archaic literary mode that nobody uses
anymore? Yes and no. About the only people creating true allegories
today are political cartoonists. But a culture never entirely discards
its roots, and allegory, which first appeared in the waning years of
the Roman Empire,
Ahem. See for example Plato's /Republic/, Psalm 80, and Ezekiel 16-17.
Post by Steve Hayes
is one of the foundations of Western literature.
Well, allegory was defined in the original article (by Laura
Miller) as

An allegory, in short, is not just another word for a metaphor.
In essence, it’s a form of fiction that represents immaterial
things as images. [...]

So if I understand her correctly, none of your examples are
allegories because they are not fiction.
Post by Jerry Friedman
....
See also /Encountering Sorrow/ (/Li Sao/, I'm told), a Chinese classic
of the third century B.C., I'm told.
_Departing_ Sorrow. Not an allegory by the above definition
either, it seems. (Not enough of a narrative to be a fiction.)

----- -----

Back to Laura Miller's article. I find it annoying that she
spent three paragraphs complaining about misuses before explaining
why she considered them misuses. She gave a short definition,
one example, and then switched quickly to complaining about
the form being neglected. It is pretty bad expository writing.

I get the impression that to her, an allegory must be a fiction
with a undisguised (or crudely disguised) metaphor, and that
the metaphor must be about an abstract theme that has enough
gravitas (for her).
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Steve Hayes
2016-05-18 02:09:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
Back to Laura Miller's article. I find it annoying that she
spent three paragraphs complaining about misuses before explaining
why she considered them misuses. She gave a short definition,
one example, and then switched quickly to complaining about
the form being neglected. It is pretty bad expository writing.
I get the impression that to her, an allegory must be a fiction
with a undisguised (or crudely disguised) metaphor, and that
the metaphor must be about an abstract theme that has enough
gravitas (for her).
Since the point of the article was to complain about the misuse, I'm
not surprised that she began with that.

The English usage question (as opposed to the literary genre question)
concerns the changing meaning of the word "allegory". Miller objects
to the too-broad meaning, and proposes (IMO) a too-narrow one instead.
I think she overstates her case, but sometimes you have to do that if
you want to get the point across.
--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
Anton Shepelev
2016-05-18 08:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Steve Hayes about
Miller objects to the too-broad meaning, and pro-
poses (IMO) a too-narrow one instead. I think she
overstates her case, but sometimes you have to do
that if you want to get the point across.
As Leon Trotsky said, in order to straighten a stick
one must bend it the other way.
--
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Steve Hayes
2016-05-19 02:01:40 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 18 May 2016 11:49:52 +0300, Anton Shepelev
Post by Anton Shepelev
Steve Hayes about
Miller objects to the too-broad meaning, and pro-
poses (IMO) a too-narrow one instead. I think she
overstates her case, but sometimes you have to do
that if you want to get the point across.
As Leon Trotsky said, in order to straighten a stick
one must bend it the other way.
As in affirmative action.
--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
Tak To
2016-05-19 07:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anton Shepelev
As Leon Trotsky said, in order to straighten a stick
one must bend it the other way.
Mao Zedong said almost the exact same thing[1] a couple
of years earlier (1927 vs 1930). I often wonder if
there was a common origin.

[1] 湖南農民運動考察報告 (Study Report on the Peasant Movements
in Hunan)
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Mack A. Damia
2016-05-19 15:16:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
Post by Anton Shepelev
As Leon Trotsky said, in order to straighten a stick
one must bend it the other way.
Mao Zedong said almost the exact same thing[1] a couple
of years earlier (1927 vs 1930). I often wonder if
there was a common origin.
[1] ?????????? (Study Report on the Peasant Movements
in Hunan)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin.

".... it is (Julius) Martov—who in this same series of meetings
becomes the leader of the Menshevik faction of the Russian party—who
says that Lenin “made a confession to us” that “‘the stick had been
bent in one direction, and so we bent it the other way.’........
Depending on which translation you use, Lenin may have also used the
metaphor in the 1903 debates, saying—either “We all know that the
economists bent the stick in one direction. In order to straighten the
stick it was necessary to bend it in the other direction, and that is
what I did,”...."

http://isreview.org/issue/61/lenins-stickbending
Mack A. Damia
2016-05-19 17:30:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 19 May 2016 08:16:18 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Tak To
Post by Anton Shepelev
As Leon Trotsky said, in order to straighten a stick
one must bend it the other way.
Mao Zedong said almost the exact same thing[1] a couple
of years earlier (1927 vs 1930). I often wonder if
there was a common origin.
[1] ?????????? (Study Report on the Peasant Movements
in Hunan)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin.
".... it is (Julius) Martov—who in this same series of meetings
becomes the leader of the Menshevik faction of the Russian party—who
says that Lenin “made a confession to us” that “‘the stick had been
bent in one direction, and so we bent it the other way.’........
Depending on which translation you use, Lenin may have also used the
metaphor in the 1903 debates, saying—either “We all know that the
economists bent the stick in one direction. In order to straighten the
stick it was necessary to bend it in the other direction, and that is
what I did,”...."
http://isreview.org/issue/61/lenins-stickbending
Apparently, the idea originates in Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics.

"We must drag ourselves away to the contrary extreme; for we shall get
into the intermediate state by drawing well away from error, as people
do in straightening sticks that are bent."

http://nothingistic.org/library/aristotle/nicomachean/nicomachean12.html
Tak To
2016-05-19 07:03:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Tak To
Back to Laura Miller's article. I find it annoying that she
spent three paragraphs complaining about misuses before explaining
why she considered them misuses. She gave a short definition,
one example, and then switched quickly to complaining about
the form being neglected. It is pretty bad expository writing.
I get the impression that to her, an allegory must be a fiction
with a undisguised (or crudely disguised) metaphor, and that
the metaphor must be about an abstract theme that has enough
gravitas (for her).
Since the point of the article was to complain about the misuse, I'm
not surprised that she began with that.
The English usage question (as opposed to the literary genre question)
concerns the changing meaning of the word "allegory". Miller objects
to the too-broad meaning, and proposes (IMO) a too-narrow one instead.
I think she overstates her case, but sometimes you have to do that if
you want to get the point across.
I am not sure about overstating, but hers was less an
explanation than a reminder of what the correct usage
should be. I expect she would at least refer to one
of her counterexamples and say something like "X is
not an allegory because ...". She seems to have an
attitude of "they are wrong and you (the reader) know
that I am right".
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Jerry Friedman
2016-05-18 04:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tak To
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
By Laura Miller
...
Post by Tak To
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Allegory or metaphor: The distinction might seem obscure and academic
to many readers. Shouldn’t allegory be grateful to get any attention
at all? Isn’t it just an archaic literary mode that nobody uses
anymore? Yes and no. About the only people creating true allegories
today are political cartoonists. But a culture never entirely discards
its roots, and allegory, which first appeared in the waning years of
the Roman Empire,
Ahem. See for example Plato's /Republic/, Psalm 80, and Ezekiel 16-17.
Post by Steve Hayes
is one of the foundations of Western literature.
Well, allegory was defined in the original article (by Laura
Miller) as
An allegory, in short, is not just another word for a metaphor.
In essence, it’s a form of fiction that represents immaterial
things as images. [...]
So if I understand her correctly, none of your examples are
allegories because they are not fiction.
They seem like fiction to me. The author of Psalm 80 doesn't expect us
to believe that God transplanted a vine from Egypt that grew to reach
the Mediterranean and the Euphrates.

In the /Republic/, I was thinking of the story of the cave.
Post by Tak To
Post by Jerry Friedman
....
See also /Encountering Sorrow/ (/Li Sao/, I'm told), a Chinese classic
of the third century B.C., I'm told.
_Departing_ Sorrow. Not an allegory by the above definition
either, it seems. (Not enough of a narrative to be a fiction.)
I've just glanced at a translation of it, but I don't think fiction
needs narrative. A mere description of something that doesn't exist,
such as Coleridge's "Xanadu", qualifies as fiction. If the consort
being rejected by the ruler stands for an official being rejected by the
ruler, I'd say that counts as allegory.
Post by Tak To
----- -----
Back to Laura Miller's article. I find it annoying that she
spent three paragraphs complaining about misuses before explaining
why she considered them misuses. She gave a short definition,
one example, and then switched quickly to complaining about
the form being neglected. It is pretty bad expository writing.
I get the impression that to her, an allegory must be a fiction
with a undisguised (or crudely disguised) metaphor, and that
the metaphor must be about an abstract theme that has enough
gravitas (for her).
I think for her it has to be based on representation. People and places
in the fiction represent those abstract ideas.
--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers
Steve Hayes
2016-05-19 01:58:56 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 17 May 2016 22:29:38 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tak To
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
By Laura Miller
...
Post by Tak To
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Allegory or metaphor: The distinction might seem obscure and academic
to many readers. Shouldn’t allegory be grateful to get any attention
at all? Isn’t it just an archaic literary mode that nobody uses
anymore? Yes and no. About the only people creating true allegories
today are political cartoonists. But a culture never entirely discards
its roots, and allegory, which first appeared in the waning years of
the Roman Empire,
Ahem. See for example Plato's /Republic/, Psalm 80, and Ezekiel 16-17.
Post by Steve Hayes
is one of the foundations of Western literature.
Well, allegory was defined in the original article (by Laura
Miller) as
An allegory, in short, is not just another word for a metaphor.
In essence, it’s a form of fiction that represents immaterial
things as images. [...]
So if I understand her correctly, none of your examples are
allegories because they are not fiction.
They seem like fiction to me. The author of Psalm 80 doesn't expect us
to believe that God transplanted a vine from Egypt that grew to reach
the Mediterranean and the Euphrates.
In the /Republic/, I was thinking of the story of the cave.
I would say that those are metaphors rather than allegories.

I can't think of any allegories in the Bible, but allegorical
interpretatuions were popular, especially in Late Antiquity.

I recall hearing an an allegorical interpretation in a sermon once,
where the preacher was speaking about the conquest of Ai by the
Israelites, and Achan took some loot, which caused the Israelites to
lose their next battle (Joshua 7).

The preacher interpreted this to mean that even a tiny bit of sin in
our lives couuld alienate us from God, and treated Achan and his
behaviour as an allegory of greed.

I don't think the author intended it as an allegory, and the author
who wrote it down was probably passing on a story that had been handed
down orally for several generations, and gave it his own moral
interpretation, which centred on the concept of cherem.

That concept made little sense to a coloured community in Windhoek in
1970, so the preacher gave it a different interpretation, with a
different moral lesson, and I believe the method he used was
allrgorical, treating people and events in a story as personifications
of moral qualities.

Miller is, of course, talking about stories that were self-consciously
composed as allegories.

So I think that using the metaphor of a vine to represent the spread
of a group of people is not allegory, but using a story of people to
represent moral qualities is allegory.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tak To
Post by Jerry Friedman
....
See also /Encountering Sorrow/ (/Li Sao/, I'm told), a Chinese classic
of the third century B.C., I'm told.
_Departing_ Sorrow. Not an allegory by the above definition
either, it seems. (Not enough of a narrative to be a fiction.)
I've just glanced at a translation of it, but I don't think fiction
needs narrative. A mere description of something that doesn't exist,
such as Coleridge's "Xanadu", qualifies as fiction. If the consort
being rejected by the ruler stands for an official being rejected by the
ruler, I'd say that counts as allegory.
Post by Tak To
----- -----
Back to Laura Miller's article. I find it annoying that she
spent three paragraphs complaining about misuses before explaining
why she considered them misuses. She gave a short definition,
one example, and then switched quickly to complaining about
the form being neglected. It is pretty bad expository writing.
I get the impression that to her, an allegory must be a fiction
with a undisguised (or crudely disguised) metaphor, and that
the metaphor must be about an abstract theme that has enough
gravitas (for her).
I think for her it has to be based on representation. People and places
in the fiction represent those abstract ideas.
--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
Tak To
2016-05-19 13:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tak To
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Save the Allegory!
An entire literary tradition is being forgotten because writers use
the term allegory to mean, like, whatever they want.
By Laura Miller
....
Post by Tak To
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Steve Hayes
Allegory or metaphor: The distinction might seem obscure and academic
to many readers. Shouldn’t allegory be grateful to get any attention
at all? Isn’t it just an archaic literary mode that nobody uses
anymore? Yes and no. About the only people creating true allegories
today are political cartoonists. But a culture never entirely discards
its roots, and allegory, which first appeared in the waning years of
the Roman Empire,
Ahem. See for example Plato's /Republic/, Psalm 80, and Ezekiel 16-17.
Post by Steve Hayes
is one of the foundations of Western literature.
Well, allegory was defined in the original article (by Laura
Miller) as
An allegory, in short, is not just another word for a metaphor.
In essence, it’s a form of fiction that represents immaterial
things as images. [...]
So if I understand her correctly, none of your examples are
allegories because they are not fiction.
They seem like fiction to me. The author of Psalm 80 doesn't expect us
to believe that God transplanted a vine from Egypt that grew to reach
the Mediterranean and the Euphrates.
In the /Republic/, I was thinking of the story of the cave.
Post by Tak To
Post by Jerry Friedman
....
See also /Encountering Sorrow/ (/Li Sao/, I'm told), a Chinese classic
of the third century B.C., I'm told.
_Departing_ Sorrow. Not an allegory by the above definition
either, it seems. (Not enough of a narrative to be a fiction.)
I've just glanced at a translation of it, but I don't think fiction
needs narrative. A mere description of something that doesn't exist,
such as Coleridge's "Xanadu", qualifies as fiction.
"Fiction" is the word used by Laura Miller, and in that
context, based on her one and only example (/The Pilgrim's
Progress/), I would say she wanted the sense of "story"
in addition to that of "invented".
Post by Jerry Friedman
If the consort
being rejected by the ruler stands for an official being rejected by the
ruler, I'd say that counts as allegory.
Or was there a consort at all? The poem is written in first
person but the POV is ambiguous. It is clearly that of the
official most of the time but there are for example passages
on grooming (which we interpret as a metaphor for acting
virtuously and maintaining one's principles) which would be
just too weird if the narrator were a man. It is convenient
to say that the author has switched the POV to a that of a
consort at these places (and the switching would be a bit
too frequent) but a case can be made that the author was
simply carrying the metaphor to the extreme and created
a world in which men did groom like women.

Note: I was arguing from Laura Miller's point of view but
personally I don't necessarily agree with her definition.
To me, the word "allegory" has religious overtones and I would
hesitate to apply it to works outside of the Western tradition.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tak To
----- -----
Back to Laura Miller's article. I find it annoying that she
spent three paragraphs complaining about misuses before explaining
why she considered them misuses. She gave a short definition,
one example, and then switched quickly to complaining about
the form being neglected. It is pretty bad expository writing.
I get the impression that to her, an allegory must be a fiction
with a undisguised (or crudely disguised) metaphor, and that
the metaphor must be about an abstract theme that has enough
gravitas (for her).
I think for her it has to be based on representation. People and places
in the fiction represent those abstract ideas.
"Representation" same as "metaphor"?
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Anton Shepelev
2016-05-18 20:59:54 UTC
Permalink
What people usually mean when they call some-
thing an allegory today is that the fictional
work in question can function as a metaphor for
some real-world situation or event. This is a
common arts journalist???s device: finding a po-
litical parallel to whatever you happen to be
reviewing is a handy way to make it appear worth
writing about in the first place. Calling that
parallel an allegory serves to make the compari-
son more forceful. Fusion says that Batman v Su-
perman is a ???none-too-subtle allegory for the
fight between Republican presidential hopefuls
Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.??? (It is not.) The
Hollywood Reporter calls Zootopia an ???accidental
anti-Trump allegory??????this despite the fact that
there is no literary form less accidental than
allegory. The meaning of the word has drifted so
far that even works that aren???t especially
metaphorical get labeled as allegory: A film
about artistic repression in Iran is a ???clunky
allegory??? for ... artistic repression in Iran.
She's got a point there. I also dislike the idea
that calling a fantasy or science fiction story an
allegory makes it respectable somehow.
As if it can't be respectable without an allegory?
Even some Sword-and-Sorcery stories are great for
the sheer strength of their imagery, e.g. "Miseri-
corde" and "Two Suns Setting" by Karl Edward Wagner.
His epic novels about Kane are not nearly as novel
and his short-story work.
--
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